Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Approaching study of Written and Oral Torah
01-05-2009, 11:12 PM
Post: #11
RE: Approaching study of Written and Oral Torah
Hello,

I am a Noahide who has been learning more and more recently in an effort to become a fully observant Noahide (though I still have several things I struggle with not doing).

I would like to know why a non-Jew cannot delve deeply into Torah study including the Oral Torah. You see, I am used to - when learning about something - delving into every aspect of it as best I can because I have a thirst for knowledge. I tried to glean the reasoning from the forum without having to ask you something you have been asked probably dozens of times at least. But my question is, why can I (a Noahide) not study all parts of Torah, written and oral, in order to become wiser and to learn - especially if I do not do so in a way that would be taking a new commandment upon myself? I realize why it is that it is forbidden for a Noahide to do so, as taking on a new commandment would be creating a new religion for myself which is clearly not allowed under the Laws of Noah (as I understand them). I also understand why it is that a non-Jew cannot do something like put on Tefillin and other such things. I don't know if I am somehow making a distinction without a difference between that sort of thing and Torah study or not, but I really don't understand this one.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
01-12-2009, 07:26 AM (This post was last modified: 01-22-2009 02:50 PM by Director Michael.)
Post: #12
RE: Approaching study of Written and Oral Torah
Torah in essence is the exclusive inheritance of the Jewish people. Thus if a Noahide delves deeply into areas of Torah that do not apply to Noahides, that activity is akin to setting aside one day of the week as a Sabbath. The Talmud in Tractate Sanhedrin even says that it is tantamount to stealing from the Jews. This rule refers to areas of the spiritual realm that are reserved for Jews, and that includes the Talmudic branch of study. Of course in regard to commandments which the Noahide is commanded to observe, it is praiseworthy to delve into these laws, as well as learning the logically incumbent laws such as honoring parents, returning lost objects, and giving charity, etc.

These guidelines are explained in depth in Chapter 5 of the first section of "The Divine Code," Volume I, by Rabbi Moshe Weiner. It covers not only the Talmudic sources and in-depth commentaries that should not be studied by Noahides, but also the great amount of straightforward Torah Law sources (encompassing both all the Jewish commandments and the Noahide Code) that MAY be studied.

Rabbi Yitz
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2012 04:31 PM by Director Michael.)
Post: #13
Study of Judaic religious texts?
I know a Noahide is allowed to study Torah and Tanakh (the 24 Books of the Hebrew Bible), just not as deeply as a Jew is allowed. I am also aware a Noahide can study the Tanya, Book II ("The Gate of the Unity and the Faith")

Is a Noahide also allowed to study Rambam/Misneh Torah and if yes, but not completely. Which sections?

With blessings.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
03-02-2012, 04:38 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 03:35 AM by Director Michael.)
Post: #14
RE: Approaching study of Written and Oral Torah
For explanations of the scope of permissible Torah study for Noahides, see "The Divine Code," Part I, Chapter 5 - with the footnotes and editor's notes. As explained there, a faithful and observant Noahide is allowed to read the entire Mishneh Torah by Rambam (Maimonides), on a straightforward level. You can expect that in some places, you will need some additional explanation in order to properly understand the text.

On the other hand, if you want to know and understand what things are permitted and forbidden for Noahides to actually observe, you need to study "The Divine Code" by Rabbi Moshe Weiner: http://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-16-2013, 11:15 PM
Post: #15
Tripart categorization of Torah and Divine Code
G-d bless the U.S.

In regard to the tripart categorization of Torah (the Hebrew Bible, Mishna and Gemara), would it be correct to say that the main text of the Divine Code is Mishna while the commentaries below are Gemara?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-17-2013, 06:03 AM (This post was last modified: 04-17-2013 06:07 AM by Director Michael.)
Post: #16
RE: Approaching study of Written and Oral Torah
The main text of numbered topics in "The Divine Code" falls within the Torah-study category of "Mishnah", as do the footnoted references to information in "Rambam" (i.e. the "Mishneh Torah") and the Mishnah itself, and the sections of "Shulchan Aruch" by Rabbi Yosef Karo.
The rest of the discussions and citations in the footnotes are almost all on the "Gemara" level of Torah study (including the "Shulchan Aruch Ha'Rav" by Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Liadi). Of course, since the referenced information is all related to study of the Noahide Code, all these specific citations from Gemara-level sources are permissible to be studied by faithful observant Noahides.
(Additional, more in-depth "Gemara"-level discussions about details of the Noahide Code are published in the footnotes of the 3-volume set "Sheva Mitzvot HaShem" by Rabbi Moshe Weiner, in Hebrew).
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
01-24-2017, 05:46 PM
Post: #17
RE: Approaching study of Written and Oral Torah
Quote:Question: I purchased an Artscroll Stone-Edition Chumash (Five Books of Moses). Is there any suggested etiquette, care, or signs of respect that you would recommend towards G-d's Word that I should take into consideration?

Thanks for your important question about proper treatment of a holy Torah book. Here are the main rules you should try to follow:

- keep it off the floor
- do not put it on a surface which a person is sitting on or lying down on at the time
- do not take it into a bathroom
- do not put objects or non-holy books or less-holy books down on top of it. A Chumash is the most holy type of Torah book, and it can be put down on top of another Chumash book or any other type of Torah book or non-Torah book. But out of respect, a Torah book should not be put down on top of a book of idolatry or lewdness or heresy.
- do not use it for a mundane purpose, like putting something under it to get flattened out by the weight
- when it is set down flat, or standing up on a shelf, it should be right side up, not upside down
- when the book is not being used, it should be closed and not left lying open,
- if any of the above is accidentally or purposefully violated, the mistake should be corrected as soon as possible, and the holy book may be kissed as a sign of penitential reverence for its holiness which was disrespected
- it is OK to use a bookmark in a holy book, but it is best for it to be thin so it extends only within the blank inside margin of the pages, and not over the printed text.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
01-31-2017, 12:42 AM
Post: #18
RE: Approaching study of Written and Oral Torah
Shalom dear Rav Schulman and Noahides students,

I'd like to add that I keep my Chumash in a closet, so if I change my clothes in the bedroom, this does not become disrespectful.

Best wishes to all,
Alex
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-06-2017, 02:50 AM (This post was last modified: 09-07-2017 03:30 PM by Director Michael.)
Post: #19
Reading beyond the seven laws
Is reading too much Torah theft even when it relates to seven laws? I read that it was.

The problem is, the prohibition against this appears to be equivocal and of uncertain interpretation. I therefore feel condemned to reading any of it and wonder if I should be here (in Vayikra or Shulchan Aruch).

In some cases, it is too much to read in Aramaic or Hebrew and in others just to read Jewish ceremonial law even in English in Talmud, Shulcan Aruch and Mishneh Torah?

I went to type 30-35+ wpm in Hebrew and thought I was doing it respect by reading with at least a little comprehension (I thought).

What will become of me if I continue to do so? Hopefully nothing bad. It seemed maybe G-d was angry at me with several signs of heaven although I thought to myself, there was enough material in N.T. to transgress this (which permit reading anything), before switched theology.

Am I under any obligation to "built a fence around the Torah" (Pirkei Avot) even regarding the seven laws?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-07-2017, 05:18 PM
Post: #20
RE: Approaching study of Written and Oral Torah
(09-06-2017 02:50 AM)intruder13 Wrote:  Is reading too much Torah theft even when it relates to seven laws? I read that it was.

First of all, the prohibition is not related to how much (the quantity) of Torah reading that a Gentile does. Instead, it is related to how deeply the Gentile delves into his Torah study, if the subject is not related to something that's connected with the Noahide Code.

The Sages of the Talmud did not say that the transgression (which happens if a Gentile studies deeply into an irrelevant part of Torah that has no practical benefit for him) involved theft. They said that it resembles either theft, or adultery.

(09-06-2017 02:50 AM)intruder13 Wrote:  The problem is, the prohibition against this appears to be equivocal and of uncertain interpretation. I therefore feel condemned to reading any of it and wonder if I should be here (in Vayikra or Shulchan Aruch).

Both Vayikra (Leviticus - or any other part of the Hebrew Bible), and Shulchan Aruch (the Code of Jewish Law - the main text) are OK for a Noahide to read, because they are not in-depth (Talmudic-level) parts of Torah. And the Hebrew Bible can be read with the "peshat" (straightforward) explanations by Rashi, Ramban, Sforno, etc. This is explained in this section of the Forum, and in the chapter on Torah Study in the book, "The Divine Code," published by Ask Noah.

(09-06-2017 02:50 AM)intruder13 Wrote:  In some cases, it is too much to read in Aramaic or Hebrew and in others just to read Jewish ceremonial law even in English in Talmud, Shulcan Aruch and Mishneh Torah?

For Noahides, who fulfill the requirement of belief in the One True G-d and in the Torah of Moses (Written Torah and Oral Torah), reading in English (or another well understood language) is OK, for both Shulchan Aruch and Mishneh Torah, because they are both on the second level of Torah, called "mishnah" (straightforward statements of the Torah Law).
For the Talmud, which is the 3rd level of Torah that is in-depth, it is not OK unless it is a part related to the Noahide Code, and unless you are getting guidance in your study from a reliable and observant Torah scholar.

I went to type 30-35+ wpm in Hebrew and thought I was doing it respect by reading with at least a little comprehension (I thought).
[/quote]

Studying Written or Oral Torah in the original Hebrew or Aramaic is not recommended for Gentiles. The good-quality translations from Orthodox Jewish publishing companies are more appropriate to study, because the translations are made by Jewish Torah scholars who have studied and learned the depth of the meaning of the original text, so they word their translations to reflect the actual intended meaning.

(09-06-2017 02:50 AM)intruder13 Wrote:  What will become of me if I continue to do so? Hopefully nothing bad. It seemed maybe G-d was angry at me with several signs of heaven although I thought to myself, there was enough material in N.T. to transgress this (which permit reading anything), before switched theology.

Before you switched theology, you were anyway far off-track, and "two wrongs don't make a right." But I also question whether the official clergy of the sect you were in would really say that it's OK within their doctrine for their followers to read "anything."
Now that you have "come under the wings of G-d's Divine Presence" as a faithful Noahide, the channels of eternal blessings are opened up for you. But along with that, G-d is also carefully watching you always.

(09-06-2017 02:50 AM)intruder13 Wrote:  Am I under any obligation to "built a fence around the Torah" (Pirkei Avot) even regarding the seven laws?

I'm sure you already do that, probably more than you realize.
It is an intellectual obligation to do so, to help ensure that you will not be likely to accidentally or unknowingly transgress any of the 7 Noahide Commandments. This is especially the case for any of the 7 Laws that a person may be tempted to transgress, by his nature.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)