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Circumcision and procreation for Noahides
#1
Shalom Rabbis and Dr Schulman,
I want to know if it is good for Noahides to circumcise their boys as Jewish people do. Is it considered good or is it is forbidden? Also I want to know why they circumcise boys. Thank you very much.
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#2
Circumcision as a Divine commandment was given by G-d specifically to the descendents of Abraham.  It is a sign of G-d's covenant with Abraham (Genesis 17). It is also one of the 613 Jewish mitzvot that G-d commanded through Moses at Mount Sinai (Leviticus 12:3).

One should bear in mind that Noahides are not allowed to create additional religious obligations for themselves in the name of Divine commandments beyond their own 7 mitzvot and their details, nor to do additional acts with the intention that they are fulfilling additional Divine commandments.

But a faithful Noahide who desires to perform one the Jewish mitzvot may do so voluntarily for the sake of the benefits it will bring to him, with a few exceptions noted elsewhere: https://asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=15

With this understanding, a Noahide man may voluntarily have himself circumcised, or Noahide parents may voluntarily have a baby son circumcised. They may request this either of an Orthodox Jewish "mohel" (who is certified to perform traditional Jewish circumcisions), or of a trained medical doctor. Once a Noahide makes the decision to do this, he should follow through without delay.

Noahides may also choose male circumcision for the sake of either the benefits which circumcision can bring for a male's physical health, or refinement of personal character.
(The extent of the health benefits of male circumcision have become better understood in the past decade: https://www.scidev.net/global/health/new...study.html )
Rabbi Yitz
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#3
Hello!
I live in Sweden where circumcision is extremely rare in native Swedes. I had no thought about getting circumcised before reading in this web-forum.

Do I understand it right if I think the norm for noahides is not to get religiously circumcised (if you are not an arab noahid of Abrahams seed)?

rabbiyitz Wrote:But a faithful Noahide who desires to perform one the Jewish mitzvot may do so voluntarily for the sake of the benefits it will bring to him, with a few exceptions noted elsewhere: https://asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=15

With this understanding, a Noahide man may voluntarily have himself circumcised,
and
rabbiyitz Wrote:Once a Noahide makes the decision to do this, he should follow through without delay.

Is it your opinion that it is better to be circumcised even if it is not a Noahide commandment?

/Niklas
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#4
Sh'lom Niklas,

Thanks very much for your question, "Is it your opinion that it is better to be circumcised even if it is not a Noahide commandment?"

On the one hand, there are the non-religious medical pros and cons of circumcision, regarding infant boys, older children, and adult men. Medical science has lately discovered more about circumcision than was previously known. For example, there is now a major project to circumcise men in Africa, because circumcision lowers the risk of contracting AIDS (G-d forbid). So this is something you can discuss with your doctor, if you're interested.

For the religious perspective, I can only reiterate that non-Arabic, observant Noahide men have no religious obligation to be circumcised, or to have their infant boys circumcised. That spiritual decision is entirely depending on whether the individual feels strongly inspired to do this.
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#5
The commandment of procreation and circumcision was not repeated a second time at mount Sinai for the Noahide.

So this means, correct me if i'm wrong, that only Israelites are forced to imply these laws upon themselves.

Procreation and circumcision is only optional for noahides.
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#6
To explain in more detail:

The Torah commandments for procreation and circumcision only place liability to punishment for deliberate non-observance upon adult Jewish males.

An adult Jewish male is commanded to *father* at least one male and at least one female born-Jewish offspring (as his child, or as his grandchild born to his Jewish child).

An adult Jewish male is also commanded to have his born-Jewish sons circumcised by the traditional Jewish ritual circumcision. If a Jewish boy does not receive a traditional Jewish ritual circumcision, he is commanded to have this done for himself when he reaches adulthood.

Circumcision of males (by ritual or standard medical procedure), and procreation with an allowed spouse, are among the righteous acts that Gentiles can optionally choose to observe.

Regarding circumcision for Gentiles, see "The Divine Code," 2nd Edition, Part I, Chapter 3, pages 67-72.
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#7
From post #2 above, regarding circumscision:
They may request this either of an Orthodox Jewish "mohel" (who is certified to perform traditional Jewish circumcisions), or of a trained medical doctor. Once a Noahide makes the decision to do this, he should follow through without delay.

This is also brought up in note 65 to Part I, Topic 3:5, on page 68 of "The Divine Code" volume 1, that a Gentile who accepts upon himself to be circumscised and does not do so for 12 months is a deviant believer. This is the Rambam's opinion in his Laws of Kings 8:10. How this opinion applies in our time is uncertain: and so it was omitted from the main text of Rav Weiner's book.

So now, my question is
Whether a Gentile can decide to have himself circumscised at any point in time beyond 12 months, integrating either a set time span into his decision or waiting for a certain event, not knowing when in the future it will come about?

Would such a decision be appropriate?

Thank you very much.
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#8
You asked "whether a Gentile can decide to have himself circumscised at any point in time beyond 12 months, integrating either a set time span into his decision or waiting for a certain event, not knowing when in the future it will come about," in view of Rambam's statement about a Gentile who makes a decision to do this, and then delays for more than 12 months.

I think this can be conceptually compared to the case of Jew who, during the time of the First or Second Holy Temple, made a conditional (versus immediate and unconditional) decision to take on a nazarite vow (see Numbers 6:2-5). About such a person, Rambam writes (Mishneh Torah, Laws of a Nazarite Vow 10:14):
Quote:When a person says: "I will be a nazarite if I do this and this" or "...if I do not do [this or this]," he is a wicked man, and a nazarite vow of this type is one of the nazarite vows taken by the wicked. If, however, a person takes a nazarite vow to G-d in a holy manner, this is delightful and praiseworthy.
In other words, my point is that if a Gentile man thinks the permitted Torah-based spiritual practice of circumcision is the right thing for him to do, then he should do it forthwith for the sake of G-d. If not, or if not yet, then he shouldn't make any conditional promise of doing it at some distant time. Planning to do it in the far future (more than 12 months away) is like a conditional plan. If he says he will do it, and it gets delayed for a few days, weeks or months (up to 12 months), the short delay will not be held against him.
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#9
Shalom,
my question is:

Isn't it forbidden to mutilate one's self in any way (except for a Jew and only for circumcision)?

Nathan
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#10
From "The Divine Code," Vol. 1, 2nd Edition, Part V (The Prohibition of Murder and Injury), ch. 6, p. 444:

5. It is only forbidden to cause harm in any way of disregard to the body. But it is permitted if done in order to heal or enhance the body – such as surgery done to heal a sick person, or even plastic surgery for purposes of beautification. [And we see the widely accepted practice among observant Jews that women may have their ears pierced to accommodate earrings.]

6. A male Gentile may have himself circumcised, and a Gentile parent may have his or her male child circumcised.*

*Footnote: Rambam, Laws of Kings 8:10, says that a Gentile man may take this upon himself. This can also be seen from the statement in Rambam, Laws of Kings 10:8, that the descendants of [Abraham and] Keturah (who are obligated in circumcision) are intermingled with the descendants of Ishmael, and therefore all of their males should be circumcised. From this we see that the prohibition of physically damaging oneself (if there is no obligation or benefit to do so) does not apply in this case. [Also health benefits of male circumcision are well known for many generations, and more health benefits are being discovered in our days.]
This seems to contradict [a classical Torah commentary saying] that Abraham did not circumcise himself until he had an express Divine command to do so, because of the Noahide prohibition of harming oneself – for if so, how could any male Gentile (other than the intermingled descendants of Keturah and Ishmael) be allowed to circumcise himself nowadays? It is possible that the answer is that any male Gentile may [after the time of Abraham] have a circumcision as a universal way of serving G-d [and this is a righteous act for which a righteous Gentile can receive reward from G-d], whereas before this commandment was given to Abraham, it did not constitute a service to G-d.
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