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Hi,,,

I wanted to know..what are the punishments for violating the noahide laws?

Does the punishment vary depending on which law was broken?

thanks.
According to Torah Law, each of the Noahide Commandments has some definition of a severe transgression, that makes a DELIBERATE transgressor "liable" to capital punishment in G-d's judgment, and it also has definitions of lesser sins in that category, that are not liable to capital punishment.

Nevertheless, the system of laws and courts in a country can validly exist and apply authority only as a social institution. In other words, the majority of the people in the country have to agree to be judged by those courts and laws. So the courts in a Gentile country can only apply capital punishment for transgression of a Noahide commandment if the majority of the people have agreed to follow and be judged by that set of commandments.

(The exception is capital punishment for murder, since that can be enacted independent of the Noahide Code, for the sake of helping to improve the safety of the people in the society.)

In regard to lesser and more sever aspects of each of the Noahide commandments:
For example, one of the Noahide Commandments prohibits eating meat that was removed from a land mammal or a bird before it died. The severe violation occurs if person cuts off part of a land mammal and eats that meat, before the mammal dies. If a person commits that sin, the courts certainly have permission from G-d to apply capital punishment. If the person instead cuts off part of the living mammal, but then waits to eat that meat until after the mammal dies, it is still a sin and it is still forbidden and it is still punishable by G-d, but it is a lesser sin - and the person is not liable to the maximum penalty of capital punishment in G-d's judgment. So the courts do not have permission from G-d to apply capital punishment in this case. They do however have permission to make this sin illegal, and they can apply some lesser form of punishment (for example, a monetary fine, or a jail term, etc.)

Likewise, if a person commits either level of this act with meat from a bird, it is in the category of a lesser transgression, and the person is not liable to capital punishment for this sin in G-d's judgment. Therefore, the courts have no permission to apply capital punishment for this, but they may declare it illegal, with a lesser type of punishment.
Hi Michael....

So...technically speaking, a Noahide can be put to death for transgression of any of the 7 laws correct?

I'm just asking because I was talking to someone who claimed to be a Noahide on a forum and he was saying that ONLY the violation of the murder law is punishable by death. This didnt line up with material that I was reading on most Noahide sites and Talmudic documentation I've read so thats why I joined the forum to ask you about it.

If you could confirm that would be great.

Thanks for your time Sir.
At Mount Sinai, G-d established within the Torah of Moses that each of the 7 Noahide Commandments includes some aspect of severe transgression that will make the deliberate Gentile transgressor liable to death by the hand of G-d.

If there was a Torah-based court that was so empowered by the law of the land (which has not existed in the world for more than at least 1,040 years), such a court had G-d's permission to carry out this punishment if the transgressor was tried and convicted in a proper trial (in which he had ample opportunity to defend his case). We do not expect this to happen at any time in the future, because the Messianic Era is immanent, and in that blessed time, no one will feel any temptation to commit such transgressions.

Rather, there are compelling reasons, that can be communicated in a way of friendship and sincere concern, for why a Gentile should accept and observe the Noahide Code (for example, so that he may establish a true personal relationship with G-d, and earn eternal spiritual reward in the future World to Come).

The Noahide you mentioned, who made that statement on that forum, was probably unaware or in denial of the fact that the Noahide Commandments only exist within the context of the Torah of Moses that was given by G-d at Mount Sinai. For more information, see "The Divine Code," by Rabbi Moshe Weiner: http://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code
Excellent answer Director Michael Sir.

It's very useful to talk to someone who is an expert on the matter, so that I can educate these people who have misconceptions on the Noahide Laws with confidence.

Again I thank you for your time and commend you on this excellent site that you have.

(04-21-2011, 03:00 PM)Director Michael Wrote: [ -> ]At Mount Sinai, G-d established within the Torah of Moses that each of the 7 Noahide Commandments includes some aspect of severe transgression that will make the deliberate Gentile transgressor liable to death by the hand of G-d.

Ok understood. Capital punishment is applicable in any of the 7 laws. It's up to the Noahide court to decide. And if there is a problem with interpretation then a rabbinical oversight body can be consulted is that correct?

(04-21-2011, 03:00 PM)Director Michael Wrote: [ -> ]If there was a Torah-based court that was so empowered by the law of the land (which has not existed in the world for more than at least 1,040 years), such a court had G-d's permission to carry out this punishment if the transgressor was tried and convicted in a proper trial (in which he had ample opportunity to defend his case). We do not expect this to happen at any time in the future, because the Messianic Era is immanent, and in that blessed time, no one will feel any temptation to commit such transgressions.

Ok I fully understand that Sir...but some will ask me...what is the point in having the law to establish courts of justice to enforce the Noahide commandments if everyone is going to accept and abide by the commandments?

How do I counter that kind of question?

(04-21-2011, 03:00 PM)Director Michael Wrote: [ -> ]Rather, there are compelling reasons, that can be communicated in a way of friendship and sincere concern, for why a Gentile should accept and observe the Noahide Code (for example, so that he may establish a true personal relationship with G-d, and earn eternal spiritual reward in the future World to Come).

A noble tactic. I cant help feeling though that there will inevitably be some who simply refuse to go along with the 7 laws.

(04-21-2011, 03:00 PM)Director Michael Wrote: [ -> ]The Noahide you mentioned, who made that statement on that forum, was probably unaware or in denial of the fact that the Noahide Commandments only exist within the context of the Torah of Moses that was given by G-d at Mount Sinai. For more information, see "The Divine Code," by Rabbi Moshe Weiner: http://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code

I'm afraid I dont have a credit card to buy the book Sir. Most embarrassing...sorry.

Can you expand on this statement please:

"the fact that the Noahide Commandments only exist within the context of the Torah of Moses that was given by G-d at Mount Sinai."

...I dont really understand.

Thank You again for your time and knowledge.

(04-21-2011, 08:41 PM)davidPeterson Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-21-2011, 03:00 PM)Director Michael Wrote: [ -> ]At Mount Sinai, G-d established within the Torah of Moses that each of the 7 Noahide Commandments includes some aspect of severe transgression that will make the deliberate Gentile transgressor liable to death by the hand of G-d.

Ok understood. Capital punishment is applicable in any of the 7 laws. It's up to the Noahide court to decide. And if there is a problem with interpretation then a rabbinical oversight body can be consulted is that correct?

Rather, Gentile societies have freedom of choice to adopt or not adopt laws consistent with the Noahide Code, and they have freedom of choice to accept the Torah-based, or other, penalties for violations of those precepts. The caveat is that it is a serious sin when a Gentile government adopts capital punishment for actions that are not capital sins, or very close to capital sins, within the Noahide Code. For example, if, G-d forbid, a government decreed capital punishment for slaughtering an animal for food, that law would constitute sinful rebellion against G-d.

(04-21-2011, 08:41 PM)davidPeterson Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-21-2011, 03:00 PM)Director Michael Wrote: [ -> ]If there was a Torah-based court that was so empowered by the law of the land (which has not existed in the world for more than at least 1,040 years), such a court had G-d's permission to carry out this punishment if the transgressor was tried and convicted in a proper trial (in which he had ample opportunity to defend his case). We do not expect this to happen at any time in the future, because the Messianic Era is immanent, and in that blessed time, no one will feel any temptation to commit such transgressions.

Ok I fully understand that Sir...but some will ask me...what is the point in having the law to establish courts of justice to enforce the Noahide commandments if everyone is going to accept and abide by the commandments? How do I counter that kind of question?

Please see this synopsis of a talk by the Rebbe that answers this:

http://www.sie.org/library/article_cdo/a...1-1991.htm

(04-21-2011, 08:41 PM)davidPeterson Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-21-2011, 03:00 PM)Director Michael Wrote: [ -> ]The Noahide you mentioned, who made that statement on that forum, was probably unaware or in denial of the fact that the Noahide Commandments only exist within the context of the Torah of Moses that was given by G-d at Mount Sinai. For more information, see "The Divine Code," by Rabbi Moshe Weiner: http://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code

I'm afraid I don't have a credit card to buy the book Sir. Most embarrassing...sorry.

No problem. Payments may be send in the mail to:
Ask Noah International
P.O. Box 1
Pittsburgh, PA 15230
USA
(Note: we can't process checks drawn on non-U.S. banks. It is possible to pay by check through PayPal.)


(04-21-2011, 08:41 PM)davidPeterson Wrote: [ -> ]Can you expand on this statement please:

"the fact that the Noahide Commandments only exist within the context of the Torah of Moses that was given by G-d at Mount Sinai."

...I don't really understand.

The world has no knowledge of Noah (the son of Lamech), the 10th generation descendant of Adam and Hava (Eve), and of the Divine Commandments that he and Adam received from the G-d of Israel, other than through the Written and Oral dimensions of the Torah of Moses. Nor are the practical details of these Divine Commandments known or properly observed (including with the Divine promise of eternal reward) other than through the Written and Oral dimensions of the Torah of Moses.
Am starting to read the Divine Code today, and I have a question that will affect to our native people in the Philippines

1.Under Noahide Law can a Gentile be executed for unintentionally violating one of the Seven Laws through ignorance?

2. For those people (Native) who don't have a chance or opportunity to know the truth regarding 7 laws, because they are dead, are they also executed?

Emmanuel
It seems that you did yet not read far enough yet in the book to get the clarification of this question, so here are the parts that give the extra information - which is that people who have not learned a Torah-based prohibition, and cannot be expected to be aware of it, are not held liable. Please see these relevant parts of the book:

topics #11 , #12, #13 on p.54-55
footnotes 28, 29 on p. 55-56
topic # 2 p. 75-77
footnotes 86, 88 on p. 76-77

I will mention here the text of Footnote 29, p. 56:

---------------------------------
Rambam writes in Laws of Kings 10:1 that a Gentile is liable for transgressing the Noahide Commandments due to negligence, since he should have learned them. But it seems that he is only referring to a situation in which the general community knows the laws, yet this person excluded himself and didn’t learn them. If most of the members of the community don’t know the laws, one of these individuals is not liable unless he was previously warned, since it was impossible for him to learn in his situation. Since the laws of G-d are true and just, such a person would not be liable under these unavoidable circumstances.
It is clear that this only applies to the Noahide commandments that need to be taught (since they are not dictated by logic), such as details of the prohibitions against worshiping idols and eating flesh taken from a living animal. But for the logical prohibitions such as stealing and murder, it is obvious that a community is obligated to learn and know them, and individuals have no excuse for ignorance of the main points of these precepts.
See Ramban’s explanation of Gen. 6:2 and 6:13, that the generation of the Flood was judged for stealing because it is a logical precept, and [therefore] they had no excuse for claiming they had not learned about it.
------end------------------------

and from topic # 2 p. 75-77:

----------------------------------
It appears that if a person errs in judging his known action as permissible, he is only liable for the transgression if he should have learned that it was forbidden, as would be the case if his community as a whole knows the Seven Noahide Commandments. But in areas or times in which a community does not know some of these commandments at all, one cannot say that he should have learned them, for it was not possible, and therefore he is not liable for them.
Rather, a Gentile should first be taught and warned about the Noahide Code, and only afterwards is he responsible for his actions, in regard to the prohibitions against serving idols, forbidden relations, and eating meat that was severed from a living animal. However, for the prohibitions against murder and stealing, and for the commandment to establish courts of justice, which are all logically binding, there is no exemption for not knowing that these are forbidden.*
It also appears that there is no “erring” in regard to blasphemy. Once one knows that there is a G-d, and he knows His [holy Hebrew] Name, it is logically clear that it is forbidden to curse G-d. (But if one does not know about God at all, or does not understand what he is saying – in Hebrew or other languages – his curse is not regarded as blasphemy; see Part III.)
------end------------------------

Also, there is not any actual Noahide court or any real Sanhedrin in our time, so we are talking about a person's personal responsibility to G-d, and about responsibility for obeying the laws of the land. And when the Messiah comes speedily in our days, none of this will be an issue from then on, because all people will be righteous and will know and fulfill the commandments that G-d gives them.

*Note: when writing to Gentiles about the Seven Noahide Commandments, the Lubavitcher Rebbe would put the commandment to Establish Courts of Justice at the beginning of the list.
I read in Mammonides "First Book of Knowledge" how a person must be warned three time... each time with increasingly more people going to "Talk" to him and convince him to repent of whatever sin it was. The Sage goes so far asto say this this warning which must be given extends even to people who were causing their children to walk on hot coals in worship of Molec. Will Gentiles be warned in such a manner as well before the court renders judgement?

Thanks,
...b
1. Those rules within Torah Law about warnings to Jews who are transgressing any of the 365 negative Jewish commandments, as those warnings are a prerequisite for conviction and punishment by a Jewish Court, only apply during times when there is a functioning Holy Temple on its site in Jerusalem, with an empowered Supreme Sanhedrin of 70 Sages that is holding session in the assigned place adjacent to the Holy Temple. Those are the conditions under which a Supreme Sanhedrin is empowered to try, convict and apply corporal punishment. Those conditions have not been in place since almost 2000 years ago. In the absence of the Holy Temple and an empowered Supreme Sanhedrin, Jewish transgressors are subject to G-d's judgment and judgment by the courts of the ruling power.

2. There is also a requirement for warning to a Gentile before he/she can be tried by an empowered Noahide court for transgression of the Noahide Commandments. Such a court has not existed since early Biblical times, and possibly not at all since the time the Torah was given at Mount Sinai. However, within Torah Law, the warning which applies for a Gentile is not the same as that which applies for a Jew. The warning is that the Gentile must have been intellectually aware that his/her action that violated one of the Noahide Commandments was indeed forbidden.
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