Prohibition of In-Depth Torah Study Not Related to Noahide Code - Printable Version +- Ask Noah Q&A Forum (https://www.asknoah.org/forum) +-- Forum: Living the Seven Commandments (https://www.asknoah.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Ask The Academy Rabbis (https://www.asknoah.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +---- Forum: Torah Study for Noahides (R) (https://www.asknoah.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=15) +---- Thread: Prohibition of In-Depth Torah Study Not Related to Noahide Code (/showthread.php?tid=1926) Pages:
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Prohibition of In-Depth Torah Study Not Related to Noahide Code - Donny - 07-20-2007 BS"D I received an offer from a Torah Observant publishing company for a portion from the Schottenstein English Edition of the Talmud (Tractate Gittin 55b-56a) describing the interpersonal conflicts that led to the ruin of the Second Temple. Would this be permissible for a Noahide to read and study, especially for Tishah B'Av? What should a Noahide do if he has studied the Talmud? Thanks, Donny RE: Noahide Torah Study - Director Michael - 07-26-2007 Besides the books of the Hebrew Scriptures that are suggested for Noahides to read on Tishah B'Av [the Book of Lamentations (Eichah) and the Book of Job (Iyov)], you can read a reliable history book about the periods leading up to the destruction of the Temples. Here is a recommended book: "History Of Jewish People Volume 1 - 2nd Temple Era," by Rabbi Hersh Goldwurm, pub. by Artscroll. https://www.artscroll.com/Books/hi1p.html If a Noahide has previously studied the Talmud, he could consult with a reliable Orthodox Rabbi to find out if the study was done in the mode of "osek ba'Torah" [in-depth Torah study] in an area unrelated to the Noahide Code, in which case the Noahide would know that he should do a sincere repentance. Or he could repent in any case on the assumption that there might have been an infraction, and resolve to be more careful in the future. See the answer this FAQ question: https://asknoah.org/faq/bedtime_prayers RE: Noahide Torah Study - Director Michael - 06-02-2009 Abijah Wrote:It is difficult to follow the restrictions for non-Jews regarding Delving into Torah and "pilpul". I honestly have no idea what the words mean. These terms are explained in Part I, Chapter 5, of "The Divine Code," Volume 1, by Rabbi Moshe Weiner, quoted here: Quote:What is “delving into Torah”? It is learning only for the sake of acquiring the Torah knowledge itself (which is called “learning Torah for its own sake”). This means deep involvement in the study, and penetrating, investigative learning ("pilpul" in Hebrew [which is the Jewish style of learning Talmud]). This includes learning to deeply understand the detailed Torah laws, the deeper reasons for the commandments, or the depth of the intention of the words of Torah, and not for any other goal.* I hope this helps! RE: Noahide Torah Study - Director Michael - 06-09-2009 Some Oral Torah sources are in themselves in-depth (Talmudic) or esoteric (Kabalistic) discussions which have no practical value for Gentiles, nor do they relate to any of the fundamental principles of the Noahide faith. So the only reason a Gentile would have for studying those would just be for the sake of exploring that Oral-Torah source itself. That would be in the category of the aspect of Torah study called "gemarah learning" that is prohibited for Gentiles (i.e., prohibited if it is not in an aspect of the Noahide Code). The reasons for this are explained (for example) in "The Divine Code," Volume 1, Part 1, Chapter 5. Delving in the Torah - Ben_Noach_AZ - 01-22-2010 I apologize if this has already been discussed. I've been a little confused and worried about what "delving" in the Torah means. I've been reading "The Divine Code" (Volume 1), and what I've read about this subject seems to be pretty clear. And so I'm wondering, should I put a limit on the number of classes I take? I'm taking a class, aside from my own daily Psalms and Torah portion readings, 4 or 5 nights a week. Thank you! RE: Noahide Torah Study - Director Michael - 01-29-2010 Just the number of classes is not an issue. The issue is what is being taught, and how in-depth the teacher is going. You can find helpful guidelines in "The Divine Code" (Volume 1), in the chapter on Torah Study. RE: Noahide Torah Study - C J Tibbits - 06-11-2012 I am reading the book, The Path Of The Righteous Gentile and in chapter four it states that "the Noahite who studies portions of the Torah that do not pertain to him damages his soul." Can you please explain to me how he damages it and why? And what are they? Thank you. RE: Noahide Torah Study - Director Michael - 06-12-2012 Unfortunately, as you recognized, that statement you quoted is far too ambiguous. For faithful Noahides who recognize and accept the Torah as revelation of G-d's Wisdom, the issue of permissibility of a particular source for Torah study is not what topic is being studied (what it applies to) per se, but rather the depth of the level of study. Torah study on a basic level is open for faithful Noahides (but not for non-believers), even in topics that are unrelated to the Noahide Code. On the other hand, in-depth study/analysis by Noahides is only permitted (by G-d) in areas related to the Noahide Code - these are all the areas related to the Divine service of Noahides, which extend to many topics beyond just the Seven Noahide Commandments themselves (for example: knowledge of G-d - and His Unity, His attributes, His ways, His Divine Providence, etc.; prayer and contemplation; principles of Torah-based faith; moral and pious conduct; self-improvement; etc.). But in topics that relate exclusively to Jews, a Noahide is only permitted to study at a basic level, and not in-depth. If a Noahide goes ahead and studies in-depth in topics which are only permitted for him at a basic level, it is a rebellion and a serious sin against G-d's directive, and also it can weaken the Noahide's faith, particularly through misunderstanding. Therefore it needs to be corrected and repented for. In "The Path...", the authors euphemistically wrote "damages his soul" in place of "commits a mortal sin". "What are they?" (1) Studying any topic with in-depth, searching analysis, especially by means of delving into the advanced Rabbinical sources and commentaries. (2) Some sources by their very nature are written on an in-depth level, so just reading through those sources involves in-depth study. Therefore, study within those sources is only permitted for Noahides if the topic being studied is related to the Noahide Code - for example: Talmud, advanced Rabbinical commentaries and analysis, Kabbalah, advanced Hassidic discourses (3) Even for topics that are related to the Noahide Code, a Noahide who wishes to study in-depth is strongly advised to seek advice, tutelage and instruction from a reliable Torah-scholar Orthodox Jewish Rabbi or layperson, or a reliable expert Noahide. RE: Noahide Torah Study - C J Tibbits - 06-12-2012 Thank you Director for your answer to my question. It was very helpful. C J Tibbits RE: Noahide Torah Study - Wendell - 07-09-2014 I am new to Noahide study and just ordered The Divine Code. But I do have a question. If a Noahide does not read, write or understand Hebrew isnt it impossible for them to "delve too deeply" into Torah study by that very fact? Jewish friends of mine have told me for years that unless you know Hebrew you cannot really know Torah. |