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Taxation
#15
(04-24-2013, 05:08 PM)amenyahu Wrote: But the power given to a king or government according to these laws do tell me that even under the Jewish system or the Torah system, we are still all slaves or serfs of one type or another.

The Mishna, Tractate Pirkei Avot (Ethics of the Fathers) 6:2 puts this very succinctly:
"Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said ... There is no free man except one who occupies himself with the study of Torah; and anyone who occupies himself [in a permitted way] with the study of Torah becomes elevated."

Likes in the same Tractate, mishna 3:5, it teaches:
"Rabbi Nechunya ben Hakanah said: Whoever takes upon himself the yoke of Torah - the yoke of government* and the yoke of worldly cares are removed from him.; but whoever casts off from himself the yoke of Torah - the yoke of government and the yoke of wordly cares are imposed upon him."
[*I.e., if the community bears the burden of his obligation for him.]

(04-24-2013, 05:08 PM)amenyahu Wrote: Those laws make what the governments of the world are doing now acceptable and legal.

I don't think that such a blanket statement of approbation is warranted. Rather, there are some governments in the world today that are doing things that are not acceptable or legal (by Torah standards).

(04-24-2013, 05:08 PM)amenyahu Wrote: These laws essentially give the government the right to take anything from someone, except their lives. These laws seem to clearly state that the taking of children and possessions is completely fine as long as the government is consistent in doing it

I don't see where you found that stated or implied. There are a number of limitations mentioned:
- If he rules despotically, he and all his government are considered robbers, and their laws are merely a matter of theft...
- governmental laws are not binding unless it is for a matter that has benefit for the king or is good for the country as a whole

Also, here is an excerpted free translation from "Sheva Mitzvot HaShem", Vol. 3 (Part VIII, Dinim), by Rabbi Moshe Weiner:

1:3. The commandment and obligation for Laws and Courts is not only for Noahide courts to judge and punish, but also to guard the morality of society. This includes making laws that uphold morality and prevent the people from sinning,  and any other laws necessary for the establishment of a just and peaceful society. Gentiles are therefore commanded to make laws that are beneficial for all the country... The people who write the laws, and the judges who rule on the applications of these laws, must establish them according to their knowledge of the true needs of the country’s population, and the establishment of moral society...  The laws must obviously conform to logical and moral standards, and they must not be like the evil and cruel laws of the Biblical city of Sodom, on account of which G-d utterly destroyed that metropolis.

(04-24-2013, 05:08 PM)amenyahu Wrote: and that we have to forever live with someone else's hand in our pockets, that is unless one becomes hermits and removes oneself from society. Even the notion of this can fill a person with despondency and dread for very good reason in this present age.

This notion certainly isn't correct, because everyone will live in abundant prosperity and happiness in the Messianic Era, speedily in our days. As Rambam explains in "Laws of Kings" 12:5, "In that era, there will be neither famine or war, envy or competition for good will flow in abundance and all delights will be freely available as dust. The occupation of the entire world will be solely to know G-d."

This knowledge of G-d will come through occupation in Torah study, and thus for everyone, "the yoke of government and the yoke of worldly cares" will be removed (as cited above).

The foreknowledge of these blessings that are in store should bring us happiness, but at the same time, it should motivate everyone to yearn and pray from the depth of their hearts, at least on a daily basis, for G-d to send the true Messiah immediately!

https://asknoah.org/video/bring-moshiach-now

https://asknoah.org/video/transforming-the-world

https://asknoah.org/video/lesson-of-2nd-passover
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Messages In This Thread
Taxation - by Zulske - 03-08-2012, 01:28 PM
RE: Taxation - by Rabbi Moshe Weiner - 03-09-2012, 04:36 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 03-09-2012, 04:42 AM
RE: Taxation - by Zulske - 03-09-2012, 05:47 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 03-13-2012, 11:15 AM
RE: Taxation - by Mattityahu ben Noach - 03-15-2012, 04:44 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 03-16-2012, 06:44 PM
RE: Taxation - by Zulske - 03-17-2012, 05:04 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 03-20-2012, 04:48 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 03-28-2013, 01:54 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 04-10-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 04-16-2013, 11:34 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 04-17-2013, 06:52 AM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 04-24-2013, 05:08 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 04-27-2013, 07:14 AM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 05-03-2013, 11:47 PM
RE: Taxation - by Rabbi Moshe Weiner - 05-08-2013, 03:27 AM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 05-08-2013, 09:27 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 05-08-2013, 06:04 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 05-10-2013, 10:45 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 05-18-2013, 10:11 AM
Dinim: Courts or Government - by amenyahu - 07-08-2013, 09:00 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 07-09-2013, 12:08 AM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 07-09-2013, 12:59 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 07-10-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 07-13-2013, 05:53 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 07-14-2013, 07:44 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 07-14-2013, 09:21 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 07-21-2013, 07:04 PM
RE: Taxation - by cheryl - 10-19-2013, 10:15 PM

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