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Marriage and Marital Issues
#1
Hello Everyone in this Forum-

I have read the section in the "Path of a Righteous Gentile" book which describes forbidden relations and so forth. My question is, besides sons and other male relatives, which males on earth are forbidden for a Noahide woman to marry, that is, have sexual relations with the intent on being a couple (according to the book)?
Thank you!
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#2
According to Noahide law, only those related from the mother's side are considered blood relatives with regard to forbidden realtions. In other words, a half-brother is technically permitted to marry his half-sister IF she is from the same father but from a different mother. But today Noahides refrain from this. A Noahide woman is prohibited to marry a son from another wife of her late or divorced husband, and a Gentile is prohibited from marrying a Jew.
Rabbi Yitz
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#3
Visitor A. to the web site Wrote:Is it possible to divorce and remarry again? Would it be adultery?
Divorce and getting married again is possible, but the Torah-law rules are different for Gentiles and Jews.

Gentile couples can accomplish divorce by splitting up, and it is recommended to follow the civil laws of divorce where you are located. A Gentile couple can remarry each other after they have gotten divorced, even if one or both married and divorced a different spouse in the interim.

(Jewish couples should always seek the guidance and instruction of an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in order to accomplish a valid Torah-law divorce, in order to be sure that they do not transgress the more complex issues of adultery which apply for Jews. If a Jewish couple is properly divorced, they can then marry other spouses, but some restrictions may apply. They can also remarry each other, but only if the woman did not marry and divorce another Jewish man in the interim. The couple must always consult with an Orthodox Rabbi about these issues.)
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#4
Visitor A.B. to the web site Wrote:The Bible says it is okay for a man to have multiple wives, but in Genesis 2:24 it says that "a man shall leave his father and his mother and cling to his wife..." So can't we infer that a man is supposed to leave his parents and live with this 1 woman?
There is no prohibition against polygamy in the Hebrew scriptures - i.e., a Gentile or Jewish man establishing multiple wifes as his family. (Note that the Torah requires that if a Jewish man wants to take more than one wife, each wife has to be made fully aware of the other wives before she is married, and each wife must be provided with her own separate home in which she is visited privately by her husband.) But in the tenth century, Rabbenu Gershom, the renowned Talmudist known to his contemporaries as "Meor Hagolah" ("Light of the Diaspora"), saw that it was necessary to make a Rabbinic decree that a Jewish man can have only one wife at a time. (This was not fully accepted by some groups of Sefardic Jews in the Arabic countries.) There was never any such Rabbinic decree passed for Gentiles, but most modern Western countries have passed secular laws against polygamy.
(Polyandry, by contrast, is forbidden and a woman may never formalize a relationship with two husbands at the same time. If she does, she is considered as married to the first and having committed adultery with the second.)
But it is important for Gentiles to understand that if their secular courts or governments see that it is fitting for the overall good of the society, they have the authority to place legal limits on the number of wives a man may take, if that is acceptable to the population in general. Then by the Noahide "Law of Courts," it becomes required of the Noahide citizens to observe that law, and the courts can apply any rule for punishment that the public in general accepts. This is called "going beyond the letter" of the Scriptural law. In this context, the court system has the right to limit the male citizens to only one legally contracted wife at a time (including both formally registered marriages and common-law marriages).

G-d's known standard for moral conduct is that if two people want to have relations on a continual ongoing basis, they should do this in the context of a publicly recognized marriage, so that intimate relations do not become a "free-for-all," which would go against G-d's desire for "yishuv olam" (people making a society that is morally proper in G-d's eyes). That is the meaning of the Noahide obligation to promote "yishuv olam" - that people should be encouraged to act in ways that are morally proper according to G-d, or at least not to act in ways that are known (from the Hebrew scriptures which are authentic Divine revelation) to be abhorent to G-d (whether or not the actions are actually liable to punishment by death from the hand of Heaven).

If a married Gentile woman is going to be physically intimate with a man who is not her husband, she should abandon her connection with her present husband, leave his home (or have him leave her home), and begin a new married life. If she merely acts promiscuously and alternates between two or more partners, that type of promiscuity is abhorrent to G-d, even though He may not have made it punishable by Noahide courts.
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#5
I have read in "The Divine Code" that Gentiles can be considered married according to halakha/Torah Law in two ways. The first way being the Gentile couple establishes a home together (though technically the man doesn't necessarily need to establish the woman's home as his only residence) and make it publicly known they are living together as man and wife, and they consummate the marriage. The second way being to get married with public knowledge, according to the secular manner of the country they live in or by having a Noahide wedding ceremony.

My question is, are Gentiles who get married by other means such as getting married in a church or at least having a pastor or priest marry the couple, or Islam or any false religions considered married by Torah Law or only as domestic partners who are truly not married?

Toda, thank you for reading.
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#6
As far as the condition of marriage is concerned, and the woman's liability for adultery, it is all the same by any of those means, as long as the couple are permitted to each other within the Noahide Code and they have a domestic-partnership relationship that is recognized as such by the society around them.

However, that only applies for partners who are not forbidden to have relations with each other within the Noahide Code. Even if forbidden partners are living together and have been certified by their ruling government to be "married" within the laws of the society, they can never be considered married within Torah (G-d's) Law. An obvious example would be same-sex partners. Likewise, if the government accepted a full brother and sister as being "married" to each other, the woman would not be guilty for adultery if she had relations with another man, because she never enters into a state of marriage with her brother-partner.
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#7
How should the relationship between the Noahide couple, dating, engagement and marriage?
I believe that dating is nonexistent because physical contact is a big risk. After the secular form of dating is something that allows many freedoms contrary to holiness.
The engagement would be through a wedding ring, thus making the commitment of the couple to publicly express?
Thank you!
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#8
(11-13-2014, 01:10 AM)alexdantas Wrote: How should the relationship between the Noahide couple, dating, engagement and marriage?

I'm not sure that I understand your question. If you are asking if it is correct for a matrimonial relationship between a Noahide man and woman to develop in the order of dating, then engagement, and then marriage - the answer is yes.

(11-13-2014, 01:10 AM)alexdantas Wrote: I believe that dating is nonexistent because physical contact is a big risk.

Yes, it is a risk, but on the other hand, if a man and woman are considering the possibility of getting married to each other, they need to spend some time dating together (with limitations), getting to know each other well enough to be sure that they are compatible, that they have an attraction to each other, and that they agree on key points - so they will both agree that they will have a good long-term marriage relationship.

(11-13-2014, 01:10 AM)alexdantas Wrote: After the secular form of dating is something that allows many freedoms contrary to holiness.

Therefore dating, and anything else in a person's life, should not be approached from a purely secular perspective, but rather from the perspective of "I have set G-d before me always" (Psalms 16:8), and "In all your ways, know Him" (Proverbs 3:6).

When a person gets a strong medicine from his doctor, he would be foolish and possibly suicidal if he took the whole bottle of medicine at once, with no limitations. Simple human logic says: read the instructions first, and then, in accordance with the instructions, take the medicine as prescribed in the proper limited doses.

Similarly, G-d puts healthy physical attraction for the opposite gender into human beings for the purpose of giving people the necessary encouragement to fulfill His blessing to be fruitful and multiply, to fill the earth with civilized human beings in wholesome loving families, who will make the world into settled societies with peace and justice, so as to be a proper vessel to become a dwelling place for G-d.

To continue with the point of the analogy, the Head Doctor is G-d (as it says in Exodus 15:26, "I am G-d your Healer"). For Jews, the instructions for taking that "medicine" are found in the "Code of Jewish Law" (Shulchan Aruch). For Gentiles, the instructions are found in the book "The Divine Code" (or "Sheva Mitzvot HaShem" in Hebrew), by Rabbi Moshe Weiner of Jerusalem:
https://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code

(11-13-2014, 01:10 AM)alexdantas Wrote: The engagement would be through a wedding ring, thus making the commitment of the couple to publicly express?

I assume you mean an "engagement" ring. For Gentile couples that is permitted, but not required. The main thing is for the man and woman to be up-front and honest to each other, following through with their stated commitments or asking permission to do otherwise. That is why Jacob kept his verbal promise to marry Rachel (whom he still wanted to marry), even though he was tricked into marrying Leah first and he would have preferred to have only one wife.

(However, the engagement of a Jewish couple should not include a gift from the man to the woman as an accompaniment to the promise of marriage, because the woman's acceptance of the gift could create a status of actual marriage within Torah-law, in advance of their wedding ceremony, thereby requiring a Torah-law divorce procedure if they decide to break off their engagement. Instead, in honor of the engagement, there is a Jewish custom for the parents of groom-to-be to give a gift to the bride-to-be, and the parents of the bride-to-be give a gift to the groom-to be.)
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#9
- By the grace of God, this phrase was very important ... "Therefore dating, and anything else in a person's life, should not be approached from a purely secular perspective, but rather from the perspective of "I have set G-d before me always" (Psalms 16:8), and "In all your ways, know Him" (Proverbs 3:6)."
- About the book The Divine Code ... I wait anxiously for the Portuguese version, since as I have mentioned, I unfortunately do not have the English language. Even I have some difficulty to get the most out this forum ... i must be very careful not understand the instructions wrong.
- About the engagement ring was not quite what I meant, but on the left hand covenant, a covenant of commitment and would be changed to the left hand after the wedding. Often wear a ring on finger could avoid any kind of embarrassment or lack of respect, from other people.
- G-d help us with the translation of the book "The Divine Code", ASAP! In Brazil there is widespread confusion in people without this knowledge, yet longing to turn to the Jews!
Shalom!
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#10
(11-16-2014, 08:44 PM)alexdantas Wrote: - About the book The Divine Code ... I wait anxiously for the Portuguese version since as I have mentioned, I unfortunately do not have the English language. Even I have some difficulty to get the most out this forum ... i must be very careful not understand the instructions wrong.

Thus far, four sections from "The Divine Code" have been translated to Portuguese. The links to those PDF files are posted on this page:
https://asknoah.org/courses

They are also posted on this page, along with another essay and a brochure, a flyer, and a wallet card in Portuguese:
https://asknoah.org/other-languages

(11-16-2014, 08:44 PM)alexdantas Wrote: - About the engagement ring was not quite what I meant, but on the left hand covenant, a covenant of commitment and would be changed to the left hand after the wedding. Often wear a ring on finger could avoid any kind of embarrassment or lack of respect, from other people.

Yes, it is usually appropriate to observe your society's custom by which women wear some things in special ways to indicate publicly that they are either married or engaged. If you have any question about a particular custom that the society uses, you can send your question to AskNoah.org or to an Orthodox Rabbi of your choice.

(11-16-2014, 08:44 PM)alexdantas Wrote: - G-d help us with the translation of the book "The Divine Code", ASAP! In Brazil there is widespread confusion in people without this knowledge, yet longing to turn to the Jews!
Shalom!

We work with expert translators for translation of our books and other writings for Noahides, rather than relying on automatic translations from web-site services. We thankfully accept charitable donations to fund our translation efforts, if we can't find qualified volunteers for some particular language.
Thanks for your interest!
Dr. Michael
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