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Taxation
#21
(05-10-2013, 10:45 AM)amenyahu Wrote: Did RambaN and RambaM say that "dina d'malchusa dina" ("the law of the land is the law") is part and parcel of the Noahide law of Dinim?

RambaN: Yes. See his opinion cited in point 5 in the preceding post, that there is a positive obligation within the Noahide Commandment of Dinim for a Noahide society to set up civil laws that are at least comparable to the civil laws about which the Jews were commanded.

RambaM: He views the civil laws of society as a practical necessity, because in the course of normal living dispute arise between people, and the society needs to establish its own laws by which these disputes will be fairly judged. See Laws of Kings 10:12, where he that if 2 Non-Jews want their dispute to be judged by a Rabbinical court according to the Jewish "civil law", that is permitted. If they don't both agree to this, they should be forced to be judged in their dispute according to the civil laws of their own Gentile society.

So in PRACTICAL terms, RambaM and RambaN are in agreement that Gentile societies must have civil laws by which to judge disputes between the Gentile citizens.

(05-10-2013, 10:45 AM)amenyahu Wrote: And with regards to taxes, if it were truly robbery not to pay taxes, and if that is robbery, then are you saying that it is a capital offense to not pay taxes?

Rabbi Weiner's answer is that the civil disobedience of simply withholding taxes does not constitute outright active robbery. Any deviation from outright theft (including holding back from paying taxes, even if they are levied by a completely correct Noahide-based government) is exempt from liability for death by the hand of Heaven.

(05-10-2013, 10:45 AM)amenyahu Wrote: Rabbi Weiner's point was:
"When a ruling government is accepted by the people, the law "dina de'malchusa dina" applies, regardless how just and fitting to the Seven Laws the government is."

So I have no idea how you would exclude all sorts of tyrannies with a statement like this.

According to RambaM Laws of Robbery 6:18, a tyrannical ruler is not accepted by the people; they don't consider him to be their leader, and they don't consider themselves to be his subjects. An example would be a robber-king who takes from the people by force of arms; his governing forces are like a band of armed thieves. Another example would be the militias that control regions of a country during times of civil war. Likewise, if the government makes decrees arbitrarily against any individuals it wishes, in a manner that does not conform to a known law of the land - see ibid. 6:14.
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Messages In This Thread
Taxation - by Zulske - 03-08-2012, 01:28 PM
RE: Taxation - by Rabbi Moshe Weiner - 03-09-2012, 04:36 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 03-09-2012, 04:42 AM
RE: Taxation - by Zulske - 03-09-2012, 05:47 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 03-13-2012, 11:15 AM
RE: Taxation - by Mattityahu ben Noach - 03-15-2012, 04:44 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 03-16-2012, 06:44 PM
RE: Taxation - by Zulske - 03-17-2012, 05:04 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 03-20-2012, 04:48 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 03-28-2013, 01:54 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 04-10-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 04-16-2013, 11:34 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 04-17-2013, 06:52 AM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 04-24-2013, 05:08 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 04-27-2013, 07:14 AM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 05-03-2013, 11:47 PM
RE: Taxation - by Rabbi Moshe Weiner - 05-08-2013, 03:27 AM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 05-08-2013, 09:27 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 05-08-2013, 06:04 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 05-10-2013, 10:45 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 05-18-2013, 10:11 AM
Dinim: Courts or Government - by amenyahu - 07-08-2013, 09:00 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 07-09-2013, 12:08 AM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 07-09-2013, 12:59 AM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 07-10-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 07-13-2013, 05:53 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 07-14-2013, 07:44 PM
RE: Taxation - by amenyahu - 07-14-2013, 09:21 PM
RE: Taxation - by Director Michael - 07-21-2013, 07:04 PM
RE: Taxation - by cheryl - 10-19-2013, 10:15 PM

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