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Prostitution and adultery
#1
Even though it may be undesirable, is prostitution legal for Noahides or nonJews? I just want to get the scope of what is legal and what is not and then I can go on from there because in Judaism there are clear cut legal answers for Jews.
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#2
The Ramban (Nachmanides) interprets the verse in Genesis 2:24 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife" as follows: a man's intimate relationship with a woman should be to cling in marriage in the manner of society, and not like an animal which mates with another animal of the opposite sex randomly. Thus since prostitution is not clinging in marriage but a random act for the sake of physical gratification only, one who frequents prostitutes transgresses on the directive that his intimate relations should be in clinging to a wife. See also 1 Kings 14:24 - "There was also prostitution in the land; they did all the abominations of the nations that G-d had driven out from before the Children of Israel." Thus G-d considers prostitution as an abomination for the nations also.

The Shulkhan Aruch (the Code of Jewish Law) comments that after the flood, the nations had accepted upon themselves a prohibition against prostitution. But Bilaam opened the gates of immorality by recommending that the people of Midian and Moab adandon their daughters to prostitution in order to ensnare the Jews in sin. (Book of Numbers)

The Noahide courts are responsible to close houses of prostitution and fine and punish those who transgress, in order to preserve morality. So prostitution is forbidden to Jews and Noahides alike.
Rabbi Yitz
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#3
Can you explain me this concerning adultery for noahides.

In the Houmach Temima of Rashi and Epstein on p.297 in the french version for chapter 20:3 for the word "woman of her husband."

The temima give a commentary of Rabbi Avahou that teached in the name of Rabbi El,azar (beoulath baal) that adultery is the act of having sex with a married person and does not concern those who have sex outside of wedlock without the intention of marriage. (yerouchalmi qiddouchin 1,1)5

Talking over here about woman and man and not about homosexuality or bestiality.

Waiting for your answer
thank you in advance
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#4
The definition of the English word "adultery" is (from https://www.dictionary.com/):

voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.

There are 6 types of illicit relations which are capital sins for Gentiles, and these fall under the Noahide commandment against forbidden relations; see:
https://asknoah.org/7-commandments/locate-sources

Of these, the type which is related to adultery is the case of a man having relations with the wife of another man.

Having sex outside of wedlock without the intention of marriage (including a married man with an unmarried woman, and including prostitution) is fornication which is not permitted, but it is not a capital sin.
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#5
Lihot Wrote:My questions are: I am very, very sorry for my sins.  How can I know that I am forgiven by G-d?

Sincere personal repentance is always accepted by G-d, but depending on the seriousness of the sin, the former transgressor may have to reach deeper and deeper into his or her heart to touch the core of sincerity that will bring the forgiveness that is requested.

The acceptance of sincere personal repentance is a Divine covenant with mankind that was established after the Flood, when the world was transformed by G-d to have a new receptivity to spiritual connection with G-d. This is explained in this Chassidic discourse:

https://asknoah.org/essay/the-covenant-of-the-rainbow

It is not enough to "only" have feelings of contrition. One also needs to verbally pray to G-d Himself to ask for forgiveness, and to verbally  confess to Him the sins that were done, and one's determination that the sins will not be repeated. This is because it was the person's physical body that was the actual instrument through which the sin against G-d was committed, and therefore the physical body must be the instrument for achieving the forgiveness from G-d. The physical movement of the tongue, mouth and lips is the participation of the body in the process of repentance. An explanation of what needs to be included in the prayer is included on this page:

https://asknoah.org/faq/repentance-and-bedtime-prayers
Quote:According to Torah, there is a three-step formula for "repentance" (teshuva = returning to G-d by returning to the proper path). Quoting from Mishneh Torah by the Rambam (Maimonides):

"And what is repentance? It is when the sinner abandons his sin, removing it from his thoughts [i.e. he will from now on push out from his mind any idea to do or to imagine doing this sin], and is completely resolved not to do it again.

Consequently, he [verbally] regrets what has happened in the past [i.e. what he thought, said or did] and [verbally] accepts G-d, the Knower of secrets, as his witness that he will never return to such a sin again.

And he needs to confess verbally and state the resolutions that he made in his heart."

One should also demonstrate that one has truly returned to G-d, by striving to faithfully observe all of one's commandments. For a Gentile these are the Seven Noahide Commandments, and their offshoots which comprise the general Noahide Code of the Torah, as codified in the series of books which we have titled "The Divine Code" (the upcoming Volume II will include the precepts related to the prohibition of adultery):

https://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code

In particular, if you are ever again faced with the desire and the opportunity to commit that particular sin, you should pass that Divine test of your sincere repentance, by refusing to repeat the sin.

Lihot Wrote:In a case that could have required the death penalty, how can any amount of my repentance alter the sentence?

Until the future World to Come, every human being is destined to die. This may happen at one's natural time, or before one's natural time, as G-d may decree. Righteous courts and the punishments or penalties they apply serve one purpose in G-d's plan. In this world, most sinners are never brought before a righteous court, and their judgment from the Heavenly Court may be applied in this world, or delayed until the soul leaves the body. (See our Forum thread, "Biblical Gehinom":
https://asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=11 )

If a sinner's repentance is complete, there will be no need for the cleansing of the soul in the spiritual realm. If it is not complete, but the person returned to the righteous path, the soul can be granted a period of cleansing, which will make it fit to then receive it's spiritual reward for the good that the person did during his or her physical life. And if a Gentile decides, and actually does become a faithful Noahide, observing the Noahide Code as one's obligation within the Torah of Moses as given by the One True G-d, then one merits to be granted a place in the eternal World to Come.

Lihot Wrote:Also, I had committed to marrying the woman with whom I had been committing adultery after our divorces.  There is no way to reconcile her previous marriage, nor is there any way to reconcile mine.  Our children by our marriages receive us as a couple, expect us to marry, and have forgiven us after all the pain we have caused.  For she and I to split up now would only cause more emotional disruption in our families.  Is there anyway that a civil marriage between us could be sanctioned by G-d, or should we part and perhaps someday remarry with other partners?

I referred this question to Rabbi Moshe Weiner of Jerusalem, author of "The Divine Code." He replied that there is no prohibition for a Gentile man who committed adultery to later marry that woman after she is divorced; therefore if he and she feel truly committed to each other after she is divorced, they may marry.
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#6
Quote:Having sex outside of wedlock without the intention of marriage (including a married man with an unmarried woman, and including prostitution) is fornication which is not permitted, but it is not a capital sin.
So if a noahide couple are in a relationship but not married but plan to get married sometime in the future or are engaged, sex would be ok even if not married yet? If so, does this mean that sex is allowed only when the couple is certain that they will marry?
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#7
First, you may have slightly misunderstood the quoted statement. For Gentiles, according to Torah Law, the minimum requirement for entering into a state of "marriage" is that the couple engages at least once in normal intercourse while having the mutual intention (during the act) that they are thereby consumating a "marriage bond" with each other. Included in this intention is that they are thereby "domestic partners" - with a shared home in which they live together in the manner of man and wife, as a matter of public knowledge.

So in answer to your question, if a couple is living together as a matter of public knowledge, and having marital relations together, then according to Torah Law they are already married. And the woman will therefore be liable for the sin of adultery if she has intercourse with any other man (and the other man would be an adulterer), as long as she is still living in that domestic arrangement with the first man, and they have not made a complete separation from each other.

If the couple are delaying the domestic-partner relationship, and the people around them don't view them as being domestic partners, then if they have sex together it is in the category of licentious fornication, outside of the context of marriage. That goes against G-d's intention stated in Genesis, that a man should "cling to [i.e. have marital relations with] his wife" - as opposed having relations in some other context.
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#8
BS'D
Is there anything like formal marriage procedure for Noahides? From what I read above, it seems that as long as both partners maintain a shared home they are deemed married. But will not this simplistic solution lead to many problems? For example, the partners may agree at whim and separate instantly. I don't think that will be good for the individuals. Also please tell me dear friend that if two unmarried people agree to remain with each other without any formal social agreement or contract, will not that lead to social anarchy? This is what happened in USSR. In the early 1920s, the weakening of family ties produced nearly 7 million homeless children. This situation occurred mainly because marriage was declared as a personal choice of people with no affirmation from society. Also is it not true that social pressure is the main reason why people don't commit adultery? In short what is Noahide regulation on relations between unwed couples?
Thanks for your time, sorry if I was too long.
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#9
ahivarn Wrote:BS'D
Is there anything like formal marriage procedure for Noahides?

Yes. Noahides are encouraged to observe the process of legal certification of marriage between a man and a woman, as it can be accomplished according to the civil laws of their society. Noahide couples are also encouraged to have a marriage contract, and it should preferably be a valid legal contract according to the civil laws of their society. Please see our web page

http://asknoah.org/noahide_marriage

ahivarn Wrote:From what I read above, it seems that as long as both partners maintain a shared home they are deemed married.

That's the MINIMAL context for the Torah-law status of Gentile marriage.

ahivarn Wrote:But will not this simplistic solution lead to many problems? For example, the partners may agree at whim and separate instantly.

The requirement to establish a shared home, with their domestic relationship becoming public knowledge, means that there is some demonstrated commitment (not just a whim), and a separation/divorce from this living situation will require a process and some effort (i.e., it won't happen instantly).

ahivarn Wrote:I don't think that will be good for the individuals.

Note that even the MINIMAL context for Noahide marriage is more strict than the definition of civil marriage in the United States.

In the U.S., all that's needed for the legally recognized condition of civil marriage is for a man and woman to show up at the desk of a marriage-license office, fill out the paperwork, and get an accepted signature (in some states a blood test is also required), and it doesn't require any demonstrated commitment to a shared living situation.

Maybe your question is more about Noahide divorce, and not about Noahide marriage?

ahivarn Wrote:Also please tell me dear friend that if two unmarried people agree to remain with each other without any formal social agreement or contract, will not that lead to social anarchy?

It's hard to see how a couple REMAINING together could lead to social anarchy. Even the civil law in most countries recognizes (legally!) the status of common-law marriage, after a couple has remained together for a certain number of years. As cited above, the Noahide Code encourages couples to have a legally certified marriage, and to have a binding marriage contract. A marriage contract also provides the advantage of extra civil-law protection for both partners.

The real problem of social anarchy comes from the failure of societies to enact or enforce some of the most basic requirements of the Noahide Code, in regard to the prohibition of adultery and the other forbidden relationships. Not to mention that prostitution and casual licentious relationships are clearly identified in G-d's Torah (which is the basis for the Noahide Code) as being destructive to society, and contrary to G-d's will.

ahivarn Wrote:This is what happened in USSR. In the early 1920s, the weakening of family ties produced nearly 7 million homeless children. This situation occurred mainly because marriage was declared as a personal choice of people with no affirmation from society.

The Noahide Code includes the requirement that society must affirm the religious significance of the institution and the condition of marriage - that marriage is a Divinely imposed societal institution (Genesis 2:24). The atheistic doctrine of the communist USSR is what led to the weakening of their family ties and the breakdown of their society.

ahivarn Wrote:Also is it not true that social pressure is the main reason why people don't commit adultery?

It could be a reason, in places where there is in fact any such social pressure. If people would realize and take to heart (i.e. be properly educated) that adultery (as defined in the Noahide Code) is a capital sin, which can also cause the unrepentant transgressors to be denied a place in the World to Come, then there would be much fewer instances of adultery.

ahivarn Wrote:In short what is Noahide regulation on relations between unwed couples?
Thanks for your time, sorry if I was too long.

The Noahide status of relations between couples who are *unmarried* (according to the definition of marriage in the Noahide Code), is that relations outside the context of marriage are considered licentious, contrary to G-d's will, harmful to the overall well-being of the individuals, and destructive to the society.
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#10
In Genesis 38:15, it appears that Judah's intent was to fornicate with a harlot, and even though it was Tamar, he thought she was just a harlot at the time. Would this not indicate that harlotry was permitted, and if it was, why was it allowed at that time?
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