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Non-marital sex vs. living together
#16
(06-24-2014, 09:42 PM)Hrvatski Noahid Wrote: Although such relations are not clearly forbidden for Gentiles, it is a repulsive act, even if done in a temporary fashion." ... This means that Gentiles have no explicit commandment not to fornicate.

However, Rabbi Weiner writes (Part VI, Chapter 4, footnote 142): "It appears that based on the concept explained in this chapter, the verse commanding Gentiles to "make the world settled" forbids them to do any action that logically causes a destruction of society, so prostitution must therefore be banned."

Does this mean that fornication is forbidden due to the logical obligation to make the world settled?

It is teaching that prostitution is a sinful practice for Gentiles because:
a) there is a Divine obligation to make the world settled, and it is logically known that this practice does have the opposite effect on society;
b) it is an abomination in the eyes of G-d, as we know from the Torah;
c) if the society outlaws the practice as it should, then those who break the law are also contravening the society's laws and courts which they are obligated to obey.

Therefore a person who engages in prostitution is liable to be punished by G-d for this sinful behavior. However, it is not strictly forbidden by one of the 7 Noahide Commandments. So if a person is a Pious Gentile in respect of fulfilling the faith and the letter of the 7 Noahide Commandments in all respects but engages in prostitution, the person could still merit to receive a place in the World to Come, but could also expect to receive some temporary Divine punishment, and probably a lower spiritual level in the World to Come than would otherwise be achieved. That being said, prostitution often involves or leads to other sins which can bring more punishment, even to the extent of transgressing the specific 7 Commandments.

Similar liability applies for simple intermittent fornication by Gentiles, except that it is a lesser sin than prostitution - it has a (lesser) negative effect on society and it is (less of) an abomination in G-d's eyes. That being said, simple intermittent fornication often involves or leads to other sins which can bring more punishment, even to the extent of transgressing one or more of the specific 7 Commandments.

Note: both prostitution and any kind of fornication without marriage are strictly forbidden for Jews within the 613 Jewish Commandments.

Also note that within Torah Law, a Gentile man and a Gentile woman are permitted to live together as domestic partners without formal marriage, and this couple is considered married within Noahide Law, so the woman in this relationship must not have relations with any other men.

(06-24-2014, 09:42 PM)Hrvatski Noahid Wrote: I.e., does the prohibition of fornication stem from a logical obligation?

Fornication is sinful because it contravenes a logical obligation to uphold what G-d desires, and because it is an abomination in G-d's eyes.

Rabbi Moshe Weiner writes that a society is obligated to outlaw prostitution (the greater and more destructive sin).
A society would be justified to outlaw fornication (the lesser sin).

Note that in regard to prostitution or fornication by Gentiles, I am using the terms "sinful" and "punishable" in G-d's eyes, as opposed to "forbidden", because those acts themselves are not forbidden within the letter of the actual 7 Noahide Commandments, yet it can be learned clearly from the Torah that they are displeasing to G-d and immoral in His eyes. Rabbi Weiner does not say in "The Divine Code" that either prostitution or fornication are actually forbidden for Gentiles by any Divine Commandment. He says that societies are logically obligated to make civil laws against prostitution, and that frequent promiscuous fornication crosses the line into being accounted as prostitution.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 01-11-2009, 08:16 PM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by JohnyPicasso - 03-08-2009, 07:14 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 03-14-2009, 01:51 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 12-30-2009, 02:12 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by patrick eirenn - 03-23-2013, 04:49 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 01-20-2010, 04:54 PM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Daniel2 - 03-23-2010, 11:47 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 03-26-2010, 04:15 PM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by thatguy - 08-22-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by joenoahi - 04-01-2014, 05:31 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 04-13-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 08-24-2012, 11:17 PM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by ahivarn - 04-01-2013, 04:21 PM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Hrvatski Noahid - 06-24-2014, 09:42 PM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 07-13-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Spanish1 - 11-04-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Director Michael - 11-05-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: Pre-marital sex - by Spanish1 - 11-07-2014, 12:20 PM
Living together - by Johnny - 11-15-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: Pre- or non-marital sex - by Director Michael - 11-16-2014, 07:37 PM

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