https://www.asknoah.org/forum/ Fri, 24 Apr 2026 04:20:52 +0000 MyBB https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=3374 Thu, 12 Jul 2018 16:02:08 +0000 TomBenNoah]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=3374
Does it constitute theft to occupy more than one seat on a bus or train (eg with a backpack) if

a) nobody's waiting for a seat
b) the bus or train is crowded and people are standing

Thank you,
TomBenNoah]]>
Does it constitute theft to occupy more than one seat on a bus or train (eg with a backpack) if

a) nobody's waiting for a seat
b) the bus or train is crowded and people are standing

Thank you,
TomBenNoah]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=2034 Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:58:57 +0000 Eve7noah]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=2034
Thank you for this fantastic forum!

I have a question about what constitutes stealing. I was staying at my brother's house and I used things without asking his or his wife's permission, for my own personal use (e.g. matches, sandwich spreads). I'm sure the answer would have been yes if I'd asked, but I just took things for my own personal use without thinking. Is that technically a violation of the commandment not to steal or is it OK?

Thank you!
Eve]]>
Thank you for this fantastic forum!

I have a question about what constitutes stealing. I was staying at my brother's house and I used things without asking his or his wife's permission, for my own personal use (e.g. matches, sandwich spreads). I'm sure the answer would have been yes if I'd asked, but I just took things for my own personal use without thinking. Is that technically a violation of the commandment not to steal or is it OK?

Thank you!
Eve]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=2005 Sun, 27 Dec 2015 00:41:15 +0000 brandynpublic]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=2005 https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=1902 Wed, 24 Apr 2013 17:56:42 +0000 Hrvatski Noahid]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=1902
Rabbi Weiner writes (Part VII-A, topic 5:14): "For items that have no set value, and the buyers in the area can choose to do business with many different merchants ...each charging more or less than the average price, there is no cheating involved in selling or buying at these different prices."

I note that the term "items" is used. Does the same principle apply to services offered on the free market?

]]>
Rabbi Weiner writes (Part VII-A, topic 5:14): "For items that have no set value, and the buyers in the area can choose to do business with many different merchants ...each charging more or less than the average price, there is no cheating involved in selling or buying at these different prices."

I note that the term "items" is used. Does the same principle apply to services offered on the free market?

]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=1887 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 12:13:56 +0000 amenyahu]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=1887
As I'm trying to work out the details of the law of theft, I've read in the Divine Code the basic definition of theft and what makes one liable for theft, that it must be outright theft (although there is some debate about whether land is included), i.e., the taking of someone else's property without their volitional unforced consent.

What I would like to know is whether damage to a person's property or body is included in that capital offence prohibition or whether such acts are linked to theft and thus are forbidden but do not make one liable to get the death penalty. Seeing the basic definition of theft, personally, it seems like a forbidden act but not a capital crime. Am I wrong? Could you give some clarity please? If there is a source that I'm allowed to read, could you give that as well please?

Thanks and have a good new year.
]]>
As I'm trying to work out the details of the law of theft, I've read in the Divine Code the basic definition of theft and what makes one liable for theft, that it must be outright theft (although there is some debate about whether land is included), i.e., the taking of someone else's property without their volitional unforced consent.

What I would like to know is whether damage to a person's property or body is included in that capital offence prohibition or whether such acts are linked to theft and thus are forbidden but do not make one liable to get the death penalty. Seeing the basic definition of theft, personally, it seems like a forbidden act but not a capital crime. Am I wrong? Could you give some clarity please? If there is a source that I'm allowed to read, could you give that as well please?

Thanks and have a good new year.
]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=1859 Sat, 26 May 2012 11:40:56 +0000 jjny76]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=1859
I was wondering if it's considered theft if a noahide is behind in paying credit cards or even no longer paying them because he/she has fallen on difficult financial times and/or because he/she has incurred an unexpected large expense.

Thank you and G-d bless!! ]]>
I was wondering if it's considered theft if a noahide is behind in paying credit cards or even no longer paying them because he/she has fallen on difficult financial times and/or because he/she has incurred an unexpected large expense.

Thank you and G-d bless!! ]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=1841 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 03:28:07 +0000 Zulske]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=1841 https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=640 Sun, 16 Oct 2011 12:46:45 +0000 Benoach]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=640 My family lives in an apartment in the center of the city, but we want to sell it and buy a house outside the city. I found in internet several advertisements about one interesting house, which have been published by various real estate agencies. Those agencies have been hired by owner of his house. They use to withhold their commission from the buyer. It is of course much cheaper to buy a real estate directly from the owner. This is why real estate agencies don't publish localization of properties. You have to call them and sign a special agreement to get this information.
Because of this, basing on pictures of this house in those advertisement and Google Map, I reconstructed localization of the house. Now I may contact directly to the owner. But is this not a sort of stealing information from those agencies?]]> My family lives in an apartment in the center of the city, but we want to sell it and buy a house outside the city. I found in internet several advertisements about one interesting house, which have been published by various real estate agencies. Those agencies have been hired by owner of his house. They use to withhold their commission from the buyer. It is of course much cheaper to buy a real estate directly from the owner. This is why real estate agencies don't publish localization of properties. You have to call them and sign a special agreement to get this information.
Because of this, basing on pictures of this house in those advertisement and Google Map, I reconstructed localization of the house. Now I may contact directly to the owner. But is this not a sort of stealing information from those agencies?]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=628 Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:20:16 +0000 patrick eirenn]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=628 https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=601 Sat, 04 Jun 2011 14:18:53 +0000 nathanbenyosef]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=601
I'm working as an independent guide in natural parks. The owners of hostels want me to give them a percentage of my benefits for the visitors they send me. I know this is an international commercial habit that occurs in almost every business of every type in the whole world.
The thing is that the people that send me the visitors are not specially working as tour operators; they are hostel owners that want their visitors to have a good time during their trip and if possible stay a few days more.
I think that the only thing I should pay them would be the phone call...
My view would definitely change if they would be tour operators working all day to find me hikers. I don't find it fair to pay someone 20 dollars for only making a phone call. One of their arguments is that I could also ask them a percentage for the visitors I send them.
But I don't think in that way: I will try to find the most suitable hostel for the type of person before thinking of which hostel will give me the higher percentage... and I really don't understand why I would have to ask a percentage! I'm just helping people to find a good place to stay at.

How does the Torah look at my question?

Nathan]]>
I'm working as an independent guide in natural parks. The owners of hostels want me to give them a percentage of my benefits for the visitors they send me. I know this is an international commercial habit that occurs in almost every business of every type in the whole world.
The thing is that the people that send me the visitors are not specially working as tour operators; they are hostel owners that want their visitors to have a good time during their trip and if possible stay a few days more.
I think that the only thing I should pay them would be the phone call...
My view would definitely change if they would be tour operators working all day to find me hikers. I don't find it fair to pay someone 20 dollars for only making a phone call. One of their arguments is that I could also ask them a percentage for the visitors I send them.
But I don't think in that way: I will try to find the most suitable hostel for the type of person before thinking of which hostel will give me the higher percentage... and I really don't understand why I would have to ask a percentage! I'm just helping people to find a good place to stay at.

How does the Torah look at my question?

Nathan]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=540 Thu, 30 Dec 2010 07:50:06 +0000 Hrvatski Noahid]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=540
Rabbi Yitz wrote that "Torah in essence is the exclusive inheritance of the Jewish people. Thus if a Noahide delves deeply into areas of Torah that do not apply to Noahides, that activity is akin to setting aside one day of the week as a Sabbath. The Talmud in Tractate Sanhedrin even says that it is tantamount to stealing from the Jews."

My question is this: Does the same principle of an intellectual and cultural heritage apply among the Noahide nations themselves? If I might consider (as I do) that Latin philosophy and literature form a part of my national heritage, how does Torah-law view the efforts of a Chinese or Indian person, for instance, who wishes to acquire a thorough knowledge of Latin culture? Is he in fact stealing the wisdom and insights of my ancestors that do not belong to him?

Best regards,

Hrvatski]]>
Rabbi Yitz wrote that "Torah in essence is the exclusive inheritance of the Jewish people. Thus if a Noahide delves deeply into areas of Torah that do not apply to Noahides, that activity is akin to setting aside one day of the week as a Sabbath. The Talmud in Tractate Sanhedrin even says that it is tantamount to stealing from the Jews."

My question is this: Does the same principle of an intellectual and cultural heritage apply among the Noahide nations themselves? If I might consider (as I do) that Latin philosophy and literature form a part of my national heritage, how does Torah-law view the efforts of a Chinese or Indian person, for instance, who wishes to acquire a thorough knowledge of Latin culture? Is he in fact stealing the wisdom and insights of my ancestors that do not belong to him?

Best regards,

Hrvatski]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=371 Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:30:18 +0000 Finch]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=371
In the commercial construction industry today, the typical bid process works as follows:

1) A set of plans & specifications are issued by an architect acting on behalf of the owner.
2) Multiple General Contractors will turn in an official bid for the project at a given time on a given date. (Let us say 3:00 PM on Wednesday as an example).
3) Multiple sub-contractors (mechanical, electrical, roofing, etc.) will turn in bids to the general contractor to have their price included in bid the general contractor turns into the architect.
4) Multiple vendors will turn in bids to the various sub-contractors on the project to have their product included as part of their bid to the general contractor.

In a perfect world, the process would work as follows:

1) Each sub-contractor selects the lowest priced vendor that has turned in a bid to them, and then turns this price in as part of his bid to the general contractor(s).
2) The general contractor(s) will select the lowest bid from amongst the sub-contractors that turned in a bid to them.
3) The architect will select the lowest priced general contractor to be awarded the project.

Typically the architect & owner will choose the lowest priced General Contractor (assuming they have a reputation for reliable work).

It is assumed that the winning General Contractor will use the sub-contractors that he used when formulating his bid. (i.e. if he used the $25,000 price from ACME electrical contractors as part of his total bid price, he will use ACME electrical contractors for the electrical portion of the job.)

Working further down the chain, it is assumed that each sub-contractor will use the vendors that he used to formulate his total bid price.

IN REALITY, the process works much closer to this:

On the giving bid day (3:00 PM on Wednesday in our example), the day looks more like this:

1) As soon as ACME contractors turns in prices earlier that morning before bid time (say 11:00 AM, 4 hours before bid time), their competitors are trying to find out that pricing from any general contractor that will fish out ACME's price to them. The reasoning is simple: If they are able to get the pricing of ACME before the firm bid time, they can cut their price below that and possibly win the job without having to cut too low from their original price.
2) ACME does the same thing. They try to find out their competitors pricing.
3) After the job bids, and the winning contractors are announced, vendors and sub-contractors begin trying to cut their price after the fact if they aren't the low price at bid time.

This probably sounds like a very hard-nosed business enviroment, and it is. However, it is definitely the nature of the construction business today. (Especially during this recession.)

I had read in a book on Jewish ethics that it is not acceptable to try to swoop after the fact and "steal" business from a competitor that he almost had a contract on. On the one hand, that is what this entire process appears to be doing. On the other hand, if these are the de facto "rules of engagement" amongst all the competition, it doesn't seem to fit the bill of "stealing business away" entirely.

My questions are as follows:

1) Is it acceptable for a Noahide to take part in this process as either a vendor or sub-contractor?
2) Is it acceptable to try and find out your competitors pricing levels on bid day, assuming they are doing the same thing.
3) Is it acceptable to cut your price to the contractor after the 3:00 PM bid time?


Sorry for the drawn out posting!

thank!

Finch]]>
In the commercial construction industry today, the typical bid process works as follows:

1) A set of plans & specifications are issued by an architect acting on behalf of the owner.
2) Multiple General Contractors will turn in an official bid for the project at a given time on a given date. (Let us say 3:00 PM on Wednesday as an example).
3) Multiple sub-contractors (mechanical, electrical, roofing, etc.) will turn in bids to the general contractor to have their price included in bid the general contractor turns into the architect.
4) Multiple vendors will turn in bids to the various sub-contractors on the project to have their product included as part of their bid to the general contractor.

In a perfect world, the process would work as follows:

1) Each sub-contractor selects the lowest priced vendor that has turned in a bid to them, and then turns this price in as part of his bid to the general contractor(s).
2) The general contractor(s) will select the lowest bid from amongst the sub-contractors that turned in a bid to them.
3) The architect will select the lowest priced general contractor to be awarded the project.

Typically the architect & owner will choose the lowest priced General Contractor (assuming they have a reputation for reliable work).

It is assumed that the winning General Contractor will use the sub-contractors that he used when formulating his bid. (i.e. if he used the $25,000 price from ACME electrical contractors as part of his total bid price, he will use ACME electrical contractors for the electrical portion of the job.)

Working further down the chain, it is assumed that each sub-contractor will use the vendors that he used to formulate his total bid price.

IN REALITY, the process works much closer to this:

On the giving bid day (3:00 PM on Wednesday in our example), the day looks more like this:

1) As soon as ACME contractors turns in prices earlier that morning before bid time (say 11:00 AM, 4 hours before bid time), their competitors are trying to find out that pricing from any general contractor that will fish out ACME's price to them. The reasoning is simple: If they are able to get the pricing of ACME before the firm bid time, they can cut their price below that and possibly win the job without having to cut too low from their original price.
2) ACME does the same thing. They try to find out their competitors pricing.
3) After the job bids, and the winning contractors are announced, vendors and sub-contractors begin trying to cut their price after the fact if they aren't the low price at bid time.

This probably sounds like a very hard-nosed business enviroment, and it is. However, it is definitely the nature of the construction business today. (Especially during this recession.)

I had read in a book on Jewish ethics that it is not acceptable to try to swoop after the fact and "steal" business from a competitor that he almost had a contract on. On the one hand, that is what this entire process appears to be doing. On the other hand, if these are the de facto "rules of engagement" amongst all the competition, it doesn't seem to fit the bill of "stealing business away" entirely.

My questions are as follows:

1) Is it acceptable for a Noahide to take part in this process as either a vendor or sub-contractor?
2) Is it acceptable to try and find out your competitors pricing levels on bid day, assuming they are doing the same thing.
3) Is it acceptable to cut your price to the contractor after the 3:00 PM bid time?


Sorry for the drawn out posting!

thank!

Finch]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=230 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:56:12 +0000 sodergard]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=230 https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=174 Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:54:08 +0000 novanoahide]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=174
I called them to accept the offer, and the customer service rep explained the procedure: they would send me the new car seat along with a box and return label for the old car seat. I told them which new car seat I wanted, and it arrived a few days later with no box and no return label.

I called back to notify them, and the customer service rep said the box and return label for the old car seat would be sent separately. After a couple weeks, it still didn't show up.

Then, I wrote a letter addressed to the person who had signed the original letter sent to me about the offer and faxed it to the manufacturer's office using the number on the letterhead. In the letter, I explained I was trying to hold up my end of the deal, but I had received no return materials and no further instructions from them.

Again, nothing.

At this point, months after our first conversation, what is my obligation to pursue the return of the old car seat?

Thank you for your guidance.]]>
I called them to accept the offer, and the customer service rep explained the procedure: they would send me the new car seat along with a box and return label for the old car seat. I told them which new car seat I wanted, and it arrived a few days later with no box and no return label.

I called back to notify them, and the customer service rep said the box and return label for the old car seat would be sent separately. After a couple weeks, it still didn't show up.

Then, I wrote a letter addressed to the person who had signed the original letter sent to me about the offer and faxed it to the manufacturer's office using the number on the letterhead. In the letter, I explained I was trying to hold up my end of the deal, but I had received no return materials and no further instructions from them.

Again, nothing.

At this point, months after our first conversation, what is my obligation to pursue the return of the old car seat?

Thank you for your guidance.]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=168 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:27:07 +0000 ProudNoachide]]> https://www.asknoah.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=168 Other people at work use my desk sometimes when I am not there and someone left some coins on my desk (it is primarily my desk), so do I have to ask around for the owner of the change or can I do something with the change? If I don't know who left the money, what am I ALLOWED to do with the change? Do I have to leave it there? Same question for money found in the street, and does it matter on the amount of money found?
Thank you so much, ProudNoachide]]> Other people at work use my desk sometimes when I am not there and someone left some coins on my desk (it is primarily my desk), so do I have to ask around for the owner of the change or can I do something with the change? If I don't know who left the money, what am I ALLOWED to do with the change? Do I have to leave it there? Same question for money found in the street, and does it matter on the amount of money found?
Thank you so much, ProudNoachide]]>